Jonah Lomu

Jonah Lomu

Shortly before the 2015 Rugby World Cup, I met Jonah Lomu in London to talk about the forthcoming tournament, New Zealand’s chances and chasing down Padding Bear! I recorded the conversation and what follows is a transcription of our exchange, the original interview published by Mode-com (now defunct). Jonah died unexpectedly shortly afterwards, suffering a heart attack associated with a kidney condition.

Meeting Jonah was a great privilege. We met at Somerset House in London in September, shortly before a Heineken-sponsored event that officially launched the 2015 Rugby World Cup. Initially, we had only a few minutes together, but that went out the window. We ended up speaking at length about many things, notably the forthcoming World Cup and how he had been spending time in the UK with his children, holidaying in Dorset and, on his children's request, trying to find Paddington Bear in London.

Jonah died two months later, on November 18th after suffering a heart attack associated with his kidney condition. He was diagnosed with a severe kidney disorder in 1995, and the disease had a significant impact on his playing career and wider life. By 2003 he was on dialysis and in 2004 underwent a kidney transplant. He then attempted a comeback but did not play international rugby again, and retired from professional rugby in 2007.

He will, though, always be remembered for his presence on the field. He was the first truly massive winger, a trend that has now become standard in many teams but was uncommon when he burst onto the scene. He had a unique combination of power, size and speed that made him devastating with the ball in hand and has since been described as the first true global superstar of rugby union. At one time he was considered 'rugby union's biggest drawcard', as his appearance at a match would increase attendance.

Lomu scored tries against every major test playing nation in World Rugby except South Africa (12 matches) and Wales (3 matches). In his career, he scored eight tries against England - more than any other All Black.

What follows is a transcription of our conversation.

So, who’s going to win the World Cup?

Hahaha… If I knew that man, I’d be putting everything on it! It’s too hard to pick, ey. The point of difference between winning and losing comes down to who makes the most mistakes. Anyone can make a mistake at a crucial time. That’ll lose them the game. World rankings and everything will be there but that goes out the window once the game starts.

Warm-up games don’t really mean anything then?

Nah, they don’t.

Do you think New Zealand’s preparation has been where they’d want it to be?

I think that they’ve done everything that they can. You know, you have your core players, those who can flip a game on its head, but you’ve gotta choose wisely while remembering that you’re in each other's back pocket for X-amount of weeks. You gotta fit the mould on and off the field. You need a happy camp, otherwise, it ain’t gonna go well for you.

And injuries can happen, ey. Teams and players also lose form. New Zealand shows loyalty to players but that only goes to a certain point. If you have a player in form, then the pick should go to that man. That’s always been part and parcel of All Black rugby.

This is the World Cup and this is where players want to shine. This is where players want to test themselves against the best in the world, and what a great place to do it! England is Rugby HQ. Where it was formed, where rugby was signed, sealed and delivered to the world. It’ll be brutal and players are gonna let rip, I’m sure, but afterwards, they’ll all stand at the bar and have a few brewskies with each other and tell each other a few porkies - especially the forwards who always tell you, ‘Hey, did you see that try I scored? I sidestepped the fullback, the winger and everyone else!’ Hahahaha.

Who, do you think, will be the stars of the tournament?

Well, there’s Dane Coles who’s a star in the making in terms of forwards. It’s not often that you see a forward out-running back, especially when you’ve got South African backs as he was up against. It’s fantastic to see. At the same time, there are some great young players coming through. I’m looking forward to the games. I know my two sons are looking forward to it, too!

You mentioned loyalty and being “part and parcel of All Black rugby,” but have New Zealand been guilty of showing too much loyalty to players?

You have to judge a player on form. Loyalty is good but it only goes a certain way. With Richie [McCaw], you can’t measure his Super Rugby when he’s in an All Black shirt. He’s a completely different kettle of fish. But also, he has to be managed through Super Rugby, but now he knows where he’s at and he still leads by example. It’s his leadership that’s needed for this World Cup. And his knowledge and experience. He knows how to handle the pressure. A team needs someone like that, who can make the decision at crucial times. You need it in other positions as well.

How important is leadership?

Just look at England in 2003. Everyone was calling them Dad’s Army before the tournament, but they ended up winning and that was because of the experience they had in the team. You’re gonna have to call on that because sometimes, if you’re too young and you haven’t had the experience then you’re gonna have to lean on others. If not, then you’ll make mistakes. Experience and leadership go hand-in-hand. Loyalty only goes so far.

Is this a better experienced All Black team?

Sure. They’ve had to do something different because every time the All Blacks lost at a World Cup, they’d change the coaches. They never really had the chance to commit themselves the next time around. They’ve had opportunities, though, and they’ve learnt from their mistakes. To tell the truth, you learn more from when you lose, than you do from winning. You’re forced to break it down more - the game, the team, your own performance - and push on. Losing means you study things more intensely and turn over every stone.

The pressure is on New Zealand then?

Yeah, but you’ve gotta remember that England always plays well at home. Twickenham is their fortress. They’re like any nation, you know, they don’t want anyone else coming into their home and disrespecting them. England will stake their claim, I’m sure. They’ll defend Twickenham. They know what they have to do, but the All Blacks know, too!

Are England are going to be difficult to beat?

Of course. They have the potential to do very well. Now, having the potential is different to actually doing it. Only time will tell. They have a tough pool and it’ll be a great battle. If they come through that pool unscathed, then they’ll be there or thereabouts. It would be fantastic for the English crowd. It would be fantastic to have the home nation in the final. Amazing for the Northern Hemisphere as well.

Do you ever wish you were back on the field, perhaps up against England again?

Hahaha, hhhmm, well I’m glad that I don’t have to bash-up my body again. The game has changed. It’s come a long way. For me, I prefer now to hang out with my sons. If you saw them, you wouldn’t think that they’re the age they are. They’re four and six.

Are they as fast as you were?

Man, they’re rapidly quick! Dad is starting to get weary. I’m glad, though, because they have mum’s looks and dad’s pace - hopefully. They love the sport. For me, it’s about showing them what I did and where rugby started. I was in muddy fields in Auckland for the Blues [Auckland Blues Super Rugby], then played for the All Blacks at nineteen. Then in England at a World Cup a year later. Speaking to you here in England, we’re in Rugby HQ, ey. New Zealand is still a young country, though.

The kids are here with you in London?

Yeah, they’re lovin’ it. Looking at old buildings while I’m playing daddy day-care. I’m doing some work but also trying to chase down Paddington Bear!

But I reckon you miss it, don’t you? I think you’d fare pretty well on the field in today’s game.

Yeah man, me too, hahaha… I’d go quite well. Things have changed in certain ways, but I always had speed and mass - big for a winger! And, you know, I was mentally strong too, which is so much part of the game. Me 20 years ago, yeah, I’d back myself!

Thanks. Great talking to you.

Thank you, Daaayyyvidd!

Jonah Tali Lomu, 1975 – 2015